There’s a scene early on in Amazing Spider-Man #14 that speaks volumes as to why I’ve had so many problems with “Spider-Verse,” not only in terms of its construction and execution, but also its theme and its message. Peter Parker’s “plan,” which was apparently to just show up at the door of the Inheritor’s home and fight them, is underway and Miles Morales and a cavalry of Spiders (one of about three instances where this issue features a “here comes the cavalry” sequence) shows up to save the day. Spider Ock, always the pragmatist and cynic asks Peter if they are to team up with this band of “misfits” and Peter responds “we’re all misfits.”
I don’t know if in my vocabulary of words I would use to characterize Spider-Man if I’ve ever thought to pull out the word “misfit.” I guess it’s kinda close thematically to a few other words I would prefer to use – outcast, loner, outsider, social pariah – but not exactly. Either way, I think Dan Slott’s choice of words here speaks volumes as to why I’ve had such a difficult time connecting to “Spider-Verse” and its myriad moving parts, tie-ins, etc. How can I be engaged in a storyline that’s a celebration of all things Spider-Man (who, I still maintain, is my favorite superhero of all time) when its central thesis is one that I don’t identity with the central character? “We’re all misfits” at least explains why the story has moved so far from the “Peter Parker is the one true Spider-Man” idea that was first put forward when “Spider-Verse” began, but it doesn’t mean I think Slott has his fingers on the pulse of the character as much as he says he does – or at all really. For 14 issues, Slott has written a comic book series about Spider-Man, but it sure as hell ain’t MY Spider-Man, and that’s where the current state of this comic book series really concerns me.
But beyond any existential crisis I’m currently undergoing related to Amazing Spider-Man, ASM #14 is yet another problematic entry in this very problematic storyline because it marks yet another instance where, in a final chapter, Slott completely fails to stick the landing. Heck, we’re not even talking about a little stumble upon the dismount. We’re talking about a full on faceplant akin to what Slott did in the final chapter of “Goblin Nation” last year.
Granted, based on my opinions regarding “Spider-Verse’s” five preceding chapters, it was going to take the miracle of all miracles to reach a conclusion in this story that I found to be satisfying. But there have been a few instances in the past where Slott has somewhat salvaged things in the final chapter, like with last year’s “Learning to Crawl” miniseries, which I still found to be a dud, but at least had an ending filled with heart and sincerity. In ASM #14, Slott seems to just double down on all the things I found to be absurd and incoherent about “Spider-Verse” – so much so that even some of the folks that were praising the storyline a month or two ago have come around on the fact that its ending fell flat.
There are just things about this story that are fundamentally wrong in terms of how to successfully construct a narrative. You don’t put forward a storyline that consists of what seems like 20 different installments if you count the tie-ins, and then have a major plot point like Silk – the “bride” that the Inheritors need to perform their silly ritual – be kidnapped OFF PANEL. I can’t, for the life of me, understand why something of that magnitude couldn’t have been shown in ASM #13, or even one of the tie-in books where other major plot points that sorta/kinda paid off in this issue were introduced (i.e. Karn’s betrayal of his brothers and sisters and the survival of the Japanese Spider-Man’s robot). Has Spider-book editor Nick Lowe been on vacation the past few months while this story has unfolded or is he just that careless with his oversight (or does he just not care).
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the problems of this comic book. Honestly, in putting words on a page, I’m having the damndest time coming up with my own cohesive narrative that illustrates all the various issues I had with ASM #14 because the comic itself was so haphazard in its construction.
Let’s touch on some big issues first and see if I have the energy to delve deeper with the small nit-picky stuff.
In a comic book storyline that promised big, Multiverse-bending changes, we once again got something that’s resolved far too neatly, with a bunch of characters doing things without consequence or emotional reflection/consideration because … well, I guess because “Spider-Verse” was to take up six issues and ASM #14 was the sixth one so now it’s time to go. I realized that we’re going to get a special “epilogue” issue in two weeks where “big changes” are being touted again, but fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice … I won’t get fooled again.
Seriously, whatever Slott has up his sleeve is just not going to land with me because nothing about what comes next is going to feel organically “earned” – i.e. properly developed and paid off in a way that is satisfying. Bringing up certain plot points only to abandon them for 5, 10 or 15 issues is not playing “the long game” as Slott likes to boast about himself. It’s lazy storytelling, especially when there’s no real build when Slott impetuously decides NOW is the time for the payoff. So, if this “epilogue” issue is just an excuse to work Spider Ock back into the mainstream universe, I honestly don’t give a hoot because I haven’t been given a reason to care about Spider Ock since the very first chapter of “Goblin Nation” a year ago. His return will neither be triumphant or rage inducing to me, because Slott effectively neutered the character last year when he had him relinquish control of Peter’s body back to him without any real build or reason to do it outside of, “holy crap, it’s Superior Spider-Man issue #30 and we need Peter back in time for his reboot and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 in a month. Hurry!!!!”
Besides, over the past few issues, Slott has failed to expand upon a number of interesting moments involving Otto’s character, such as the revelation the character learned about his future self in ASM #13, and the ramifications for him murdering the Master Weaver (which was not part of the “plan” per Peter) in ASM #14. Again, you can’t just narratively carpet-bomb a comic with random moments, walk away for a month or more, and then come back expecting you have something to build upon. I mean, I guess you can, but I don’t think it’s a successful way to go about telling a story.
The same could be said about the Peter/Silk dynamic which Slott chooses to end this story on. Sure, Peter unlocking Cindy from Ezekial’s vault is in effect, what kicked off “Spider-Verse” by alerting the Inheritors to the “bride’s existence.” But after a few issues of Peter and Cindy being all over each other because PHEREMONES, the storyline was put on ice in favor of sending Silk on some wacky adventures with Jessica Drew (and remember, Silk, the comic comes out in a few weeks!). You can tell that Slott is trying to develop a tender moment here with Peter and Silk, but I haven’t been given reason to care about how these two characters interact with each other in months. And it still doesn’t solve the issue I’m having connecting to Silk because there’s still nothing much to her character beyond “Hey kids, she’s linked to Spider-Man and because of PHEREMONES these two just want to have sex all the time. Isn’t that COOL?” Who is she? Who were her parents? Is there anyone else out there who might care about her? What are her powers beyond “everything better than Peter?” How is she adjusting to life out of her vault? I know, I know, these are just trifles, but they’re also not usually things you attempt to answer AFTER a supporting character randomly gets her own solo book after just being introduced a few months ago.
As I anticipated, I already feel myself running out of steam here. Let me just quickly hit upon a few other things: magic crystals which contain the “essence” of the Inheritors has now replaced “secret scrolls” as a plot device I find to be needlessly insipid; it’s majorly disappointing that after being built up for months as this unstoppable force, the Inheritors were treated like a couple of chumps by the Spiders; and doing the old “switcheroo” with baby Benji and Spider-Ham HAD to be all about making Peter cracking a “pig in a blanket” joke (by the way, does Geico get a portion of the profits from this comic for that joke?).
Lastly, what do we make of Peter in this story? The character has been sorely misused and abused since returning last April and this storyline did very little to redeem him. He gets to have his “moment,” sorta, where he teleports himself and Morlun out of Loomworld to the toxic radiation world. Of course, I have some really serious problems with the idea that Peter and the Spiders, who are allegedly above that whole killing thing, have exiled the Inheritors to a planet where there is no source of life for them to feed on. But, I guess because there’s a shelter, and if I learned anything from watching apocalypse movies, shelters always have a supply of canned beans and corn for people to sustain on. Still, can’t help but think that Slott wrote himself into a corner here by making a point of Peter’s “nobody dies” mantra while simultaneously not thinking of a better way for the Spiders to dispatch of the Inheritors. Or is it, “nobody dies … by my hands physically?”
Either way, the storyline that initially started out to be about Peter’s role as the leader of the “Spider-Verse,” instead ended up being a tone deaf hodgepodge of half-baked ideas, all of which were either intentionally or unintentionally ignorant of the character’s history and legacy. Then again, they’re all just a bunch of “misfits” anyway, so what did I expect?
***
With “Spider-Verse” being over (save the “epilogue”), I thought this was a pretty good time for a quick state of the union for Chasing Amazing.
I’m sure none of you will be surprised to hear that “Spider-Verse” was not as much fun as it was cracked up to be, and we’re now approaching a solid year since I last found a Spider-Man story to be of the quality we were getting in the early parts of the Superior Spider-Man era. After staunchly defending Slott for years, I do think it’s time for him to move on – let him write Silver Surfer and maybe he can jump on Fantastic Four once Marvel inevitably brings the title back after its through with its hissy fit with Fox – but I also don’t think that change is coming anytime soon, which means I need to start thinking more like a consumer than a fan.
I will always buy Amazing Spider-Man just because that’s the series I’ve collected for 25+ years and I’ve invested far much time, emotion and energy into maintaining that collection. Thus, you’ll continue to see me reflect about the new issues of ASM as they are put out. But after being subjected to so much mediocre Spider-product the past year, I’m going to seriously pare book how much ancillary stuff I buy (and write about) going forward. You’ll already noticed that I stopped writing (and buying) Spider-Man and the X-Men after that one awful first issue. And while I thought the series had some promise, I wasn’t all that sold on Spider-Woman, so that’s been dropped too. I’m disappointed that Spider-Man 2099 is being cancelled as a casualty of Secret Wars, but I will continue to buy and review that series until it’s over. Just based on its premise, I’m not all that into the Secret Wars 2099 story that will replace Spider-Man 2099 but maybe as more details emerge I’ll change my mind and give it a chance.
Of the two new books coming out, I’m buying Spider-Gwen and ignoring Silk. Sorry, I still maintain that Silk is being thrust upon us without cause or reason. The fact that it appears that this book was always in the cards while Spider-Gwen was a happy accident, makes me resent the existence of the series even more. If having me ignore Silk sends a message to Marvel and the Spider-office that they can’t just slap together a new book and expect folks like me to buy it, so be it. If the book ends up being great, I can catch up with it on Marvel Unlimited, but I don’t see it lasting beyond a year unless Marvel digs its heels in and insists that it lasts a year.
I’m truly excited about Spider-Gwen as I think Jason Latour and Robbie Rodriguez hit upon something uniquely special in Edge of Spider-Verse #2. It’s on my pull list and will be a part of the Chasing Amazing lineup.
I’m undecided about if and how I’m going to approach some of these Secret Wars tie-in books. I’ll probably ignore the new Spider-Verse book out of principle, while I’ll take all of the others on a case-by-case basis, and make a determination based on whether or not I like the creative teams, premise, etc.
And of course, I’ll continue to write the old retrospective pieces, because with those, more than anything, I hold all the cards as to whether or not I truly want to talk about a storyline. It’s hard to complain about a story you’re voluntarily picking from the annals of history.
Guys, I’m sorry this site has taken such a negative spin the past few months, but I hope you all understand where I’m coming from. I’m always hopeful that the next Spider-Man story will be a great one, but the current creative powers that be have not given me any reason to expect that going forward. I’m sure Slott is a nice enough guy, who did put together some GREAT Spider-Man stories back in the day, but the longer he stays on this book, the more I think his legacy is being tarnished. And yet there are plenty of people who disagree with me, who think the Spider-books have never been better. I mean, SPIDER-HAM for crying out loud, AmIrite? Anyway, not to be glib, but I sometimes wonder if the current state of comics is passing me by and that for every person who says they’re tired of events and status quo upheavals, there are 10 who think this is what comics should be, character or good storytelling be damned.
Maybe this’ll be like the end of “Space Seed” in Star Trek, and in 10-15 years we’ll have older, haggard Inheritors coming back for revenge after Spider-Man because he never bothered to check in on Ceti Alpha 5.
Mark:
“Anyway, not to be glib, but I sometimes wonder if the current state of comics is passing me by and that for every person who says they’re tired of events and status quo upheavals, there are 10 who think this is what comics should be, character or good storytelling be damned.”
This is *exactly* how I feel as well. People like events – they sell and why would Marvel as a business not play to that? SpiderVerse ended up being quantity over quality. It should have been much more fun that it was.
Oddly enough, the gems were in the buildup – both with Superior and the Edge of Spider-Verse stories. Otherwise, this was such a colossal let down on so many levels (I know I’m biased, but what a waste of Miles Morales!) and you articulated my frustrations with what’s happened to Otto as a character.
And Silk? Give me a break. At least I have Spider-Gwen to look forward to. Hopefully her story isn’t completely derailed by the Secret Wars stuff.
So, if this “epilogue” issue is just an excuse to work Spider Ock back into the mainstream universe, I honestly don’t give a hoot because I haven’t been given a reason to care about Spider Ock since the very first chapter of “Goblin Nation” a year ago.
This post was excellent. I mean you’ve written some great posts before and I always stop by here first thing on Fridays after an ASM is released but man you brought it on this one. I mean you laid out in very fine detail what’s wrong with the Spidey books. You brought it. This was great. This was absolutely great and I agree pretty much with everything. Spidey’s been relegated to supporting character so much I really am picking up ASM 15 to see what Ocks final fate is. This was a great post man. Just a great post.
Sadly, I’m almost in total agreement. Goblin Nation, Learning to Crawl, the opening six issues, Spider-Verse…duds, all of them. And the sad thing, Slott used to be REALLY GOOD at these things. Five-issue mini-series mining continuity? Spider-Man/Human Torch, great story, Learning to Crawl, came and went nobody cared. Giant six-issue epics with dozens of characters and huge stakes? Spider-Island, one of the all-time great Spider-Man stories, juggles half a dozen sub-plots and gives everybody a great ending(Kaine redeemed, Eddie Brock redeemed, Venom did his thing, Peter saved the day with his quick thinking and intellect and showed why he’s special instead of people just saying he’s special in Spider-verse, etc). Spider-Verse? Like the bigger, badder, dumber sequel, the Blackest Night to SI’s Sinestro Corps War. And he’s been great at smaller, street level stories too. Look at “Mysteriso”, “Brand New Day”, “Flying Blind”, “Return of the Spider-Slayer” “Nobody Dies”, “Flying Blind”, “No Turning Back”. My disappointment isn’t coming from some anti-OMD/BND/Slott people who just dislike everything post-2007. Its coming from somebody who used to LOVE this man’s work on this character. And we’ve got just about two years worth of comics where I can say that anymore.
I think Slott has done all his great Spider-Man stories now. He’s at the point where he seems almost bored with Peter, so he has to have his mind taken over by supervillians or get sucked into a giant, mystical, multiverse spanning epic with hundreds of characters and big noisy, splashy set pieces. He’s completely forgotten the relatable everyman street level hook that are the backbone of all of ASM’s great runs. Lee/Ditko, Lee/Romita, Stern/Romita, DeFalco/Frenz. The man’s lost the plot, and because sales are higher than they’ve been in 10 years, nobody can tell him no. Steve Wacker probably told him no lots of time, he’s gone for Nick Lowe, who’s every interview makes it sound like he just nods his head to everything Slott says. Maybe its cuz he’s split up writing duties with Silver Surfer(which, despite its cosmic whimsy, still has a great character dynamic grounding it) and all the minis, IDK. But he’s running on fumes now. He’s like Mark Waid on Flash post-Return of Barry Allen. Sometimes you gotta know when to step aside and let Geoff Johns do his own great run, ya feel me?
Either Slott needs to go, or we need an alternate Peter Parker book. One that can go an entire year without another giant, world/universe spanning mega event. One where Peter Parker maybe has to clean his suit and he has to go the washeteria with a webbed up mask, or his arm breaks and he’s gotta lie about it to his co-workers, or maybe he’s gotta stop a bus full of kids careening off the road and then make it back in time for Aunt May’s birthday.
The only thing you said I disagreed with is that Terminal Velocity is a pretty great Mark Waid Flash story, which I believe came after “Return of Barry Allen.” 🙂
SHIT you’re right, I’m thinking post-#100, which is when Terminal Velocity ended. THAT should be the moment he stepped away, instead of trying to top it with tired, overlong stuff like Chain Lightning, Dead Heat, or Race Against Time.
TV was a celebrating of all things Speed Force which I thought was a perfect place to end on. People like Dead Heat and I’m okay with it, but I actually like a number of the Morrison/Millar stories more than the tail’s end of Waid’s run. Then of course Geoff Johns comes aboard and it’s like a brand new ballgame.
I’d love to know Dan Slott’s answer to “Is there anyone else out there who might care about [Silk]?” The only good thing about her getting her own book is that hopefully it means ASM might regain a bit of page space for, you know, Spider-Man.
Good job on cutting out the junk ancillaries. I totally understand why you’re sticking out ASM (it’d be insane to stop at this point!) but otherwise there’s nothing more frustrating than hearing someone bitch out a book (or TV show, or video game franchise) day after day – as they continue to pay for it.
Slott actually made a statement not that long ago that the Silk solo book was not always in the works, but was spawned by the sales of the first 6 issues of the ASM reboot. Because I’m sure the sales of those issues had nothing to do with, you know, the return of Peter Parker…
Sorry, that sounds like textbook face saving to me. The fact that both the Silk and Spider-Gwen books were announced simultaneously sounds like they had the Silk book all lined up and ready to go and realized that if they didn’t pull the trigger on Spider-Gwen after its buzz and sales, there would have been some serious fan outrage. There was never any “push” to give Silk her own series. The character had barely been introduced a few months before and her first appearance didn’t sell any better than the previous issues of ASM.
I know you’re just reporting what Slott said, but it’s stuff like that that has completely erased any goodwill that man had earned over the years. Stop manipulating fans and trying to get people to buy into your BS. I’d have more respect if Marvel was like, “trust us and read Silk because you’re going to love this book and character” rather than make crap up like there was actual DEMAND for this book.
Oh, I agree. It’s completely ridiculous to credit Silk for the sales of your top character’s main series.
And I also plan to pick up Spider-Gwen (ugh, that name) while skipping Silk.
I never liked Slott much, but with Big Time I had the feeling he didn’t quite get the character of Spider-Man, what makes him special and the character we know and love to read about. In more than one instance I had the feeling Slott only threw in big, hi-tech… things, just to make Spider-Man appealing, but in a void way. It was the epitome of modern (mediocre) comics: flashy but empty.
When he wrote Superior, I understood that he was comfortable (and quite good, as far as I read) writing a different kind of Spider-Man, like Otto, but he never understood what lies beneath the original Spidey, Peter.
I still have to read ASM vol.3 and Spiderverse, but the very same idea of this event seemed to me like a huge risk, in that it could have been a fantastic story, but it also had all the premises to become just another flashy event. And so it seems.
It seems to confirm the old idea that when a writer stays too long on a book, he starts to be overconfident about it, making wrong choices one after the other, ruining the characters and the book.
A sound review mate. I agree with every point. I have not been too keen a fan of Peter and his world post-2007, but Slott had shown strong capability with the character in those early years which made him my favourite of the post-OMD writing team, and I was one of those that liked Learning to Crawl, mainly because he was working with Peter’s more innocent days and had to work within the framework of that timeline.
However, his last few years on the book have been dreadful, with so much carelessness with the characters it’s almost as if he wants us to reflect on this Peter as nothing short of a pale reflection (something brought up in the actual Spider-Verse story in an exchange between Spidey UK and Spidey India), and a “fake” like Mayday claims out of anger in the same story. Would Peter call himself and others “misifits?” I know he guilt trips a lot but some of those Spiders have achieved more than him and triumphed in ways he could never have fathomed (Ben Reily in this event was so good he actually AVERTED some of the tragedies Peter could not in the BND era according to the “Scarlet Spiders” series), I too think Slott is bored with Peter in his present form. A part of him is probably relishing the challenge of “Renew Your Vows” as much as I, despite my misgivings about him writing a married Peter, am anticipating how well he behaves himself
The problem with Spider-Verse was that the story never happened. The story was 5 issues of set-up with nothing in the middle. No character depth, no change in the plot, no real story, no texture. All of that stuff was outsourced to the tie-ins and left the main book nothing to work with. It was maddeningly shallow without the fallback of being consistently flashy (Coipel is flashy, Camuncoli is not.) Amazing Spider-Man is dropped.
I agree with pretty much all of what you’ve said. I’ve been reading and collecting comics for a little longer and have just about amassed all of ASM Vol 1. I also have The Amazing Spider-Man Gitcorp DVD-ROM Complete Collection which is great when you don’t have time to rummage through boxes.
I always found the pre Superior Spider-Man stories by Dan Slott a little flat, childish, dumbed down, silly, uninspiring and boring. I seriously considered dropping the title there for a while but stuck it out until ASM#700.
Suspension of disbelief is one thing when reading comic books, but when it flows into the realm of absurdity, i.e with Superior Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man and Spider-Verse, I have decided to no longer spend my money on products that do not deliver an enjoyable reading experience.
I too have invested far much time, emotion and energy into maintaining my collection, but I can’t support the parody that is currently happening with Spidey. In my opinion, I don’t think my collection is incomplete if I don’t have all the Slott issues.
Maybe one day in the not too distant future, I can read memorable adventures by a new creative team on the Amazing Spider-Man title. Stories that are a little more grounded and substantiated with genuine characterizations of Peter Parker as a mature, responsible adult and formidable super hero.
Possibly the best and most honest assessment I have read on the Slott era.
I was a person who was a kid in the early ’70’s who drifted away from comics. I left in 1980 and did buy another comic until 2011. I came back to a bold new world!
I started back with Spider-Man and will stick with him no matter what. I am determined to read the good stories and the bad…so I guess I will keep plunking my hard earned cash on the table. They have to replace Slott eventually
A very eloquent, passionate, and thought-provoking review, Mark, and, seeing you’ve read and commented on my own review over at the Spider-Man Crawlspace, I feel your frustration with the current state of Spider-Man comics.
Your comment in the review about how events which take place in this comic feel unearned due to how Dan Slott’s tendency to abandon plot points and developments for issues at a time, only to suddenly bring them up again was particularly salient when you consider how Slott tends to write. I believe you’ve mentioned this with Dan on your Superior and Amazing Spider Talk podcasts, but Slott has developed this terrible tendency to let his plots drive the characters in the story when ideally it should be the other way around. That could explain why this particular issue was so rushed after the slog from the previous parts, as though Slott released “Oh crap! I got to finish this story and it HAS TO happen in a certain way, so I HAVE TO make this character to do this, and this character to do that in order to make it work.” And it also may account for why Peter Parker, in spite of being the supposed “greatest Spider-Man of them all” and “leader” of the other Spider-Men, all but sat on the sidelines during the event, or was running around confused as what he should do until this issue required him to do something. Let’s not also forget how “Spider-Verse” was originally intended by Slott to be a Superior Spider-Man story instead of an Amazing Spider-Man story, which would also account for why Peter feels so arbitrary for so many issues whereas Otto gets much of the limelight.
I am certainly in agreement. The series just hasn’t been of a high quality anywhere near consistently enough to justify all the mishandled characterization and lack of character development. I want to like this. I really do. I really, really do. But it’s so hard lately. All I want is good story and good art. Please.
I agree Mark, honestly it’s refreshing to read reviews that share my thoughts on the series. It’s not the quality that it should be. Slott’s recent plots all end up disjointed messes by the end of the arc. I’d love to see some huge changes with the creative team.
With Mark Waid and Chris Samnee leaving Daredevil soon I would love to see them take over Amazing Spider-Man and take it to the heights it deserves to be at.
Thanks for the feedback… as much as I love Waid/Samnee, I don’t think they would go in that direction since Waid already worked on the book during the braintrust era, and I have to wonder if he’s trying to ramp down his Marvel work to focus on some of the creator-owned stuff he’s pushing forward.
In my humble, uninformed opinion, Nick Spencer might be the most logical person to take over for Slott. He’s written a number of satellite titles with the Spider-Office in the past (Cloak and Dagger, Superior Foes) and he’s increasingly getting a higher profile within the Marvel ranks with his assignments on Secret Avengers and now Ant-Man. I would welcome Spencer as I think he has a great appreciation for the Spidey universe and he does street level AND character (AND humor) very well.